Catholic Voice for Obama Prof Kmiec Tries to Spin Saddleback Forum for Obama

I should say attempts to spin. It is a very half as* s attempt if you asked me.

He has his latest on Catholic Online at Opinion: Doug Kmiec on McCain v. Obama at Saddleback

I saw this last night and was about to write an extensive post on it. Then I figured Pro Ecclesia would write a much more clearer one than me and I would add a few things that struck me. Well he did and it is pretty good at Without Further Ado: Doug Kmiec on McCain v. Obama at Saddleback [UPDATED]

Let me add a few things. First let me point out that Kmiec is a lawyer and good lawyers know how to the get judge or in this the case the jurors of public opinion off their bad points.

One really wonders why Kmeic spends almost a full page talking about a pro-life demonstration outside the Church and makes them appear in a negative sense. Well I think it is apparent. It is to sort of set of a straw man. Political demonstrations happen all the time. I mean goodness does Kmiec recall the vile Republicans had to deal with in New York!! Every time Bush shows up at a event the most crazy things happen with demonstrations spouting the worse things. Is this really news.

However there is familiar theme here. Kmeic the Catholic victim!!!!

"And so for the next two hours we were subjected to one bloody photo or another being thrust into our face as one epithet or another was hurled at Senator Obama. There was also a contingent of yellow-tee-shirted protestors proclaiming marriage to be between one man and one woman, to which as Catholics we also concur".

Uh why did he feel compelled to sit outside? Subjected? Why didn't he take his wife and go down the corner to a hotel bar or restaurant and watch the debate for two hours. That is what I did when Bush came to Shreveport and I could not score tickets for his Social Security event.

By the way about those protesters. It appears Prof Kmeic is not telling the whole story. From the LA TIMES BLOG
The Orange County Sheriff's Department estimates that there are 1,000 people there. Our Susannah Rosenblatt counts about 700.
There are McCain supporters, Obama supporters, antiwar protesters, anti-illegal-immigration demonstrators, abortion rights advocates, followers of libertarian candidate Bob Barr, followers of former Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul and anti-same-sex-marriage protesters.

Also see Illegal immigration protesters to greet McCain, Obama. Kmiec does not mention this at all of course.

Hmm appears to be more than just crazed PRO-LIFERS!!! I suppose Kmiec does not mention what I suspect was a very large anti illegal immigration supporter contingent because (1) the former person he backed ROMNEY was attacking McCain left and Right on it, and (2) This is a issue that McCain lines up with on Catholic Social Justice issue. Again it is hackery. Oh and can we be honest is the typical RON PAUL SUPPORTER typical of the conservative movement . I mean when combine anti immigration, anti war, a combination of PRO Life and Pro -Choice people, Gold Standard folks and 911 truthers into one mass as we see with Ron Paul supporters they are unique to say the least.

Again this is a straw man and the fact that he spends on a a good bit of his time on this (got to contrast the respectful response that Obama got inside the Church) and talks more of Kmiec's victim hood is telling . Anyway as soon as read page one I knew what follows was likely to be weak.

Pro-Ecclesia hits a good many points including how Kmiec has had a strange conversion on the Federalism issue and abortion.

I would suggest people read the transcript. The narrative of how this went down is a tad more complicated than Kmiec is saying.

Let me give a few examples:
What’s more, here uncharacteristically, Pastor Warren let Senator McCain off the hook. In Warren’s own words, after McCain's self proclamation as pro-life, the pastor stated "don't have to go longer on that one." Yet, there was much more to be explored.

Does being a pro-life president involve anything more than hoping the Supreme Court will express its approval that states can be either pro-abortion or pro-life which is McCain’s wholly unsatisfactory position. Pastor Warren can be forgiven for not immediately seeing the need to inquire. The Catholic perspective has been likewise oblivious to the fullness of the faith here as well. After declaring abortion to be intrinsically wrongful, the Catholic mind too often closes itself to all but one means – the reversal of Roe -- of addressing it. Like McCain’s un-nuanced understanding of evil this incomplete thought plays into, if not stokes, the “us v. them”
mentality.

I agree with that Pastor Warren let that passed. However did not Warren let Obama off the hook on the issue of Gay marriage? Obama said he thought it was a state right issue!! However why did he not ask him if that was the case why is Obama saying he will work to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act that protects other states from having Gay marriage just because California does?

Kmiec like when is he talking about protesters is being a tad selective

More Kmiec:
The nation’s security must be safeguarded, but as the Holy Father has instructed more than once, if the first line of defense is war, it is already a defeat for mankind. How did Senator Obama respond? By acknowledging the existence of evil and the importance of confronting it, but by first grasping, in humility, its cause. All Americans detest the horrific killing in the Republic of Georgia, but events of that ...nature do not manifest themselves spontaneously, and part of the art of diplomacy is undertaking the balance of relations that bring security by agreement and deterrence, not reactive force.

I find this very interesting. Please note I have never criticized Obama on the Georgia situation on this blog. Why? Because McCain and Obama seem to believe the same thing on the situation and what our response should be . But Kmiec is trying to make McCain the war monger. BY the way why is no talk about what our European allies think about Georgia. Like Poland for instance. For all this talk of diplomacy it sees Kmiec is seeing this crisis through the lens of 08 politics only

Which lead us to this part
McCain’s answer, for example, on the question of evil: confrontation writ large; he will get the radical Islamists; he will deploy troops wherever and whenever necessary to prevail over “the enemy” however we may describe that enemy from time to time. Years ago, it was “the communists;” then, the soviets; then the Viet Cong; then the Iraqis or al Qaeda or radical Islam (the qualifying adjective being necessary only for cover since our comparative understanding of the nuances of most religions beyond our own is often too paper thin to justify expressing an opinion, let alone sufficient grievance to send an army).

Hmm again McCain efforts as often the lone brave Republican voice that Bush and Clinton used to take the heat on normalization with Vietnam is ignored here. What about McCain standing up to the Arab bashing that occurred around the Dubai Port deal and our friend Dubai? Us against them? What about McCain work on immigration where the common memo was It's us against all the Illegals and Mexicans They are taking over? Was McCain Us versus them on that? What about McCain's stance on torture and the heat he took on that?

By the way one last thing about Us versus Them. Do people recall how McCain rushed to the aid of Kerry in 2004 and defended his Vietnam war record? Where is Kerry defending McCain the last few days? McCain is Us versus them? Hmmmm

By the way Obama in this forum says he was a huge supporter for the Bosnia operation. McCain was not. GO see Q&A/John McCain : Why Senate Skeptic Backed Bosnia Mission. Kmiec really does not explain or go into this or how OBAMA is good for sending troops in that situation and McCain is bad for wanting Georgia in NATO. It all interferes with the Us Versus Them and McCain the warmonger theme that Kmiec is having to pimp.

I suppose I could go and on about the inconsistently of Kmiec's defense. However he does push the them that Obama would be great for Catholic Social Justice theme. Let me end with what Kmiec's Colleague at Notre Dame stated last week . Prof Rick Garnett stated:

It seems to be a premise of many of these "for whom should Catholics vote?" discussions that "on every issue that matters, other than abortion, the election of Sen. Obama will actually yield meaningful policy actions that are edifyingly in concert with the Church's social teaching, while the election of Sen. McCain will actually yield meaningful policy actions that are distressingly in conflict with the Church's social teaching." But, this premise is false.

It is false because it ignores, or at least downplays, the political, social, cultural and economic realities that will almost certainly prevent dramatic changes with respect to most matters, and so it overestimates the "good" stuff about an Obama administration that, it is proposed, outweighs the "bad" stuff.

It is also false because Sen. McCain's views (or, more precisely, the policies likely to be pursued by his administration) on a number of matters -- not just abortion -- are, in terms of consonance with the Church's social teaching, preferable to Sen. Obama's. Or, so a faithful, reasonable, informed, non-duped, non-Republican-hack, Commonweal-and-First Things-reading Catholic could conclude. It's a sad thought, but . . . I'm not sure that productive conversations -- even among friends -- are possible so long as this false premise is assumed.

I think that last line is very true. It also seems to be after Reading Prof Rick Garnett thoughts and re reading the Kmiec article I am left with a big question. Who is really playing Us Versus Them here

UPDATE
O dear major update here at Catholics For Free Choice Says Pro-Life Obama Supporters and Democrats Deluded