Has The Episcopal Church Profited By Having Female Bishops and Priests (Updated)

I want to interact with a post from Anglican land here. It is a rather long post so feel free to skip on down to something else if this is not your cup of tea.

Now as an orthodox Catholic, I find the concept of female Priests (ests) and Bishops an impossibility. That is just my Traditional Roman Catholic understanding as it deals with the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Still I think it is important to look at the pros and cons in the Episcopal Church since they have had females Bishops for twenty years and female priest since at least 1974. We are often told that if the RC's changed their tune on this we would be on the way to high Cotton.

However what I hope to focus on in this post is that even if one thinks females Priests and Bishops are possible there are still problems to be dealt with.

Virtueonline has a post on this. SeeWomen Bishops Will Sink the Church of England As They Have Done In the Episcopal Church. .

I agree and disagree with this article to some degree. Here are some parts:
In July 1974, The Episcopal Church in the person of two retired and one resigned bishops irregularly ordained the "Philadelphia Eleven" to the presbyterate. The event caused great consternation among the church hierarchy. Later, the House of Bishops called an emergency meeting, denounced the ordinations and declared them invalid. Charges were filed against the dissident bishops. Attempts were made to prevent the women from serving their priestly ministries.

In 1990, 20 years later, Barbara Harris was ordained Suffragan Bishop of Massachusetts and the die was cast.............

Now this gives an interesting time line that I think is important. One is sort of shocked how fast this happened. In fact if you are an Episcopal really concerned about ecumenical matters this is really shocking especially if you are tend toward the Anglo Catholic side. Basically the TEC moved at warp speed on the crucial issue of Holy Orders and the result being perhaps a rupture beyond repair as to any possible reunion to Catholic and/or Eastern Orthodox Churches.

This is kind of shocking because often Episcopals seemed to have a kinship in their view with the Orthodox.

Now the further you progress from the Anglo Catholic side the less you care about this of course. Who cares about all those Papist and Eastern Orthodox with their un biblical practices as it were.

Still 20 years seems not a lot of time to contemplate overturning 1900 years of teaching on this. It does not seem a proper amount of time to contemplate, pray, , consult, and do the theology on this.

Now again in the TEC the importance of this particular issue varies. If you have a more Anglo Catholic view of Sacraments then this is a revolution. If you have a more Protestant/Reformed/Evangelical view and see this as something akin to ordinances then perhaps one sees it as not so earth shaking. For instance we see that SOME Evangelical Episcopals ( Orthodox Evangelical TEC folks both supported and opposed female priests and there still appears to be a internal split on this issue among them) that could live with women priests are now putting their foot down on the different facets of the gay issue as to orders and marriage Regardless things moved fast.

It was understood at that time that it would be optional for parishes and dioceses not to have a woman bishop and that no one would be coerced into having a woman bishop preach, confirm or celebrate communion. Consciences would be respected

In July of 2000 at the 73rd General Convention, Harris successfully called for defeat of an amendment that would have allowed four dissenting bishops to continue denying ordination to women as long as they held office. .....

Well that was predictable in my view. So in 1974 we had the first female Priests and in 1990 the first female Bishop under the promise of tolerance and now the TEC is doing lawsuits against those that don't comply with the new way of things.

..............It was the end of the road for any kind of toleration for the Anglo-Catholic bishops of San Joaquin, Quincy and Ft. Worth. In time, all three dioceses would leave the Episcopal Church. For liberal and revisionist bishops, exclusion became the operative word in the name of a higher inclusion, of course.

So true and you can bet dollars to donuts as to active gay clergy and Bishops the same thing will happen. Even in lets say liberal Catholic circles we see this. They are for inclusion with the "right" sort of people and if many other Catholics are excluded in the process that is just collateral damage. Why? Because our views are a social injustice and evil.

...........Today, there are 17 women bishops ranging from Harris, the first female bishop, to Glasspool, the last.

Harris, now 80 and divorced, once described her sexuality as "ambiguous". Glasspool is an avowed lesbian. Only one, Bishop Geralyn Wolfe of Rhode Island, might be described as orthodox. It was she who deposed a black woman priest who declared she could be both an Episcopal priest and a Muslim at the same time. This took guts, as one doubts that a liberal or revisionist white male bishop would have had the temerity to dump her for fear of the Black Women's Caucus coming down on top of him for lack of inclusion.

Today, TEC has a woman Presiding Bishop who many think is about the worst of the worst. Not only is she not remotely orthodox in faith and practice, she preaches "another gospel" (Gal.1:7) that is no gospel at all. She believes that social amelioration through Millennium Development Goals will bring about the Kingdom of Heaven on earth where, presumably, she will be made CEO alongside our Lord, if indeed He is necessary at all.

Now this is one of the crucial problems is it not? There appears to be an amazing amount depressing group think among these female Priests and Bishops.

This blogger, who I think is a Baptist, at The Politics of the Cross Resurrected hits on this issue at Intolerant Liberals Take Over the Church of England. Another good post that should be read in full.

He states:

In denominations in which many women were ordained it appears that, although a minority are orthodox and Evangelical, the majority are liberal in theology. Thus the overall effect has been to make the denomination more liberal. Accompanying the ordination of women is the ideology that there must be equal gender representation on all committees, which means that the smaller, more liberal pool of females is over-represented. Those wondering how confessional denominations could shift to wild-eyed heresy in such a short period of time need look no further than this political reality for an explanation.

I think this is very very true. Now I have met some "Orthodox" Protestant female ministers in the Methodist faith. However they now even seem to be getting fewer and fewer.

At this point I should be clear what I mean about "ministry". The term ministry I think in Catholic circles is being used far too much. I think this confuses the role of the ordained and the laity.

As to minister or ministry I am talking about the ORDAINED. Those that have something akin to orders. I am not talking about various forms of what is called " ministry" where the laity (both female and male) perform important work for the Gospel IE- education ministry, youth Ministry, music ministry , hospital ministry, campus ministry, social justice ministry ,etc etc etc.

Now let me returning to the issue of orders and the Priesthood.

When you think about in the Catholic context I have rarely met females that wanted to be Priests that did not have lets say a rather very progressive theological agenda. An agenda that's whole purpose seemed to be to turn traditional Catholicism on it head from Liturgy to her traditional moral and religious teaching.

How many Catholic females that want orders are advocates of adoration, basic traditional liturgy, traditional views on marriage and sexuality, the cult of the Saints, the rosary, etc etc. At least as to the females I have met that wanted to be Priests I can think of NONE, ZERO NADA.

How many retreats have you been on (where these creatures are in abundance) where they are leading all sort of alternative Liturgies that involves such things as praying in 4 directions so the Winds and Mother Earth can bless us.

I would say this is a significant problem. It also appears looking at other faith communities once these women gain power there will be little hope for what I call "orthodox women" to gain entry.

Cross Resurrected concludes
Once the Anglican Communion represented a via media between Roe and Protestantism and seemed to have an historic mission as a bridge to ecumenical unity. That mission now lies in taters because of intolerant, politicized, theological liberalism and it determination to accommodate the Church to the world instead of standing firm for the Gospel. This is unspeakably sad, but thankfully we know that the true Church cannot be destroyed by anything that happens on earth and that Jesus Christ reigns forever.

Now if you are an Anglican/ Episcopal of lets say a conservative bent this is a amazing set of affairs.Though perhaps you disagreed that over 1900 years of Christian teaching on this issue should be overturned you and your family stayed around so that the Body of Christ would not be fractured. Now in just 30 to 40 years you are being told SUBMIT or be shown the door out. Have no mistake that these folks think exclusion of females (and now active open homosexuals) from the Priesthood is a social injustice and A EVIL and thus this exclusion is necessary. So you have to respect that.

Virtue in his post goes on to review certain statistics in Dioceses with female Bishops to see if how successful these female Bishops have been. See his post for that. He concludes:

The answer as to what women bishops in The Episcopal Church have achieved is nothing. If they were CEO's of small corporations, they would all have been fired for failure, at the very least, to maintain growth and expand it, that is, show a return (on the plate) for future growth. All these dioceses are contracting with an average parishioner age in the low to mid 60s with the average size congregation now below 70.

Research VOL has conducted shows that in every diocese where a woman has been made bishop, it has sunk deeper into the numerical quagmire. They have become infatuated with their own power (Barbara Harris being one of the best or worst examples, depending on your point of view) and they have followed the theological trajectory of white western liberal males with the added touch of empowerment, rights and tampons.

The most recent "power play" was the "nyet" imposed by the Archbishop of Canterbury on Jefferts Schori in refusing her the "right" to wear her miter in Southwark cathedral. It was thought that if she did wear it, thousands would flock to the altar, following a vigorous sermon on sin and salvation, and give their lives to Jesus in the midst of the third rendition of "I come to the Altar Alone".

The sad truth is the Church of England will follow The Episcopal Church. They will slowly collapse together as the Global South continues to present an unalloyed Biblical gospel and watch as "the Lord adds daily those who are being saved" to His church


The Episcopal Church's homosexual agenda with its numerous "gay" priests and two openly "gay" bishops has followed the trajectory of women bishops. In the Church of England, the same homoerotic theology will follow the trajectory of women bishops. In both cases, the end will be the same..................

The "rights" agenda is indivisible from the essentially secular philosophy and secularized theology of post-Christian Western countries that has lead to the ordination of women. By its own logic, it will have to include the gay and "transgendered."

As the late Fr. Richard John Neuhaus once said, "Where orthodoxy is optional, orthodoxy will sooner or later be proscribed." That is clearly now what will happen in the Church of England. It has already occurred in The Episcopal Church.

Now I disagree with some of where the writer is going here. More on that in a second.

However that quote from Father Neuhaus seems like a prophecy that is fulfilled over and over again. Again this should not be surprising!! What was once viewed as Traditional Christian views on this issues is now viewed as social injustice that screams to the Heavens to God himself to be corrected. It is now a evil which mean you are a agent of evil if you hold them

You can stay around but you better be quiet and needless to say you will be given any real responsibly in your parish and don't even dream about submitting your seminary application. For instance if you have reservations about active homosexual conduct there will be no place on the vestry for you. In fact there should not be. If your Church has same sex unions then your objections would offend certain people and is nothing less than Hate Speech against the people of GOD. So sit down and be quiet before we call the police to escort you off the property.

Again where orthodoxy is optional orthodoxy will sooner or later be proscribed.

You can bet we would see this in spades in the Catholic Church if this ever happened. As we have seen repeatably the famed "tolerance" of liberal and progressive Catholics is often very intolerant of any view that disagrees with them.

Now I do disagree with the writer here some. As the comments in that post point out it is not clear it can be proved from Stats alone that the disasters that are occurring in these Dioceses are because these Bishops are female.

For instance similar things are happening where the Bishops are male. So one could could make a case that the liberal theological bent is causing this. I think in the Episcopal context there is something too that. So I am not sure the Stats by themselves prove the point the author is trying to make. However I do think it shows that female bishops have not shown ed the results the world and the New York Times has promised.

Now as a Roman Catholic I think there is more at play here than just liberal theology. Since I think female Priests are an impossibility that means all the sacraments they give absent Baptism is a futile exercise . In other words the bread stays bread.

As for Female Bishops (if Anglican Orders are valid) any people they attempt to consecrate to the Priesthood is a futile exercise thus the Sacraments those Priest give (besides Baptism)is a futile exercise. That has spiritual effects.

However if you don't agree with my Catholic theology I still think the above articles make a good point. That is the depressing amount of theological and political group think among female clergy has never abated and has in fact increased. As to the TEC and other similar bodies any hopes of a more orthodox female clergy getting any where near the altar seems dim. I think this presents quite a problem. As Cross Resurrected pointed out there is a "political reality" at play here.

Update- Catholics see your future in an alternative Universe where the Church has women Bishops and Priest. See A new low for NCR: hating the Church while begging for its affirmation . Father Z is very well to point out that "Power" seems to be the overriding theme here. Once they get it there will be no dissent allowed. Again there is a particular poltical reality involved.