Tuesday, January 12, 2010

Ted Olsen Fails to Talks about the Dark Side of Rights

Ted Olsen in Newsweek has a article called The Conservative Case for Gay Marriage

There is nothing really new under the sun here.

Mr Olsen , like others, again fails to explore the "Dark Side "of rights. I don't expect him too. He is advocating for his side.

He says of course that no one has the right to force their religious or moral choices on people. Except that is exactly what will happen with this.

He knows this, gay marriage advocates know it, that is why they are demanding this "Fundamental right".

As I have always said the people that are advocating and demanding gay marriage understand the logic and power of morals. They very much understood what Lincoln understood. That is if something is a "right" than all things that oppose it are wrong and can be swept away.

So on one hand Gay marriage advocates say your morality has nothing and can have nothing to do with their choice in marriage. However these same forces will have no problem then making sweeping moral judgments backed up by the sanction of law against those that oppose gay marriage or the gay lifestyle that has now been enshrined and protected as a Fundamental RIGHT ,

We see this happening now. Law Firms and other litigation prone business will start first. They will cut off the problem at the beginning and just not hire people that object to homosexuality or lets say are too "religious".

The "Academy" will start this too (in fact they have already started) but will feel compelled to redouble their efforts since this is now a "Fundamental Right" and the highest law of the land.

Sex education classes where one can't easily withdraw your kid from from will of course start traching the rightness and equality of homosexual lifestyle.

We can see this coming into custody cases as to best interest of the child as a Judge will feel compelled to put the Child with a person that is not so "bigoted" against a class of people that have a fundamental right.

Further new laws will come into effect as to housing discrimination, job place discriminaton, hostile work environment etc etc

This is the natural order of things.

In effect People that have deep objections to the homosexual lifestyle, whether based on religious reasoning or not, will in effect be marginilized and at the very least have to learn to keep very very quiet.

So How does Gay marriage effect you? Where perhaps a good bit.

Gay rights advocates know very much what they are doing here in having a anchor in the law like this.

One problem I think is the Libertarian mindset or how more to the point how that is taken advantage of by savvy people.

Libertarians on the conservative side say LIVE AND LET LIVE. Get the Government out. Let people do what they want. Let us all decide whom we wish to contract with, associate with and on the flip side who we don't want to associate with and contract with.

Now in the land of theory perhaps all this would be workable.

EXCEPT time after time the other side is not going to be happy with LIVE AND LET LIVE!! People will find these Libertarian ideals in the real world will offer no protections to people in the above scenario. Lets take an example.

Olsen brings up the old LOVING case (interracial marriage) which to be honest I think is not related to all this. However he does not bring up the famous Bob Jones College case where the Supreme Court removed the college's tax exemption because it forbid its students date people of other races.

The Court said this was against the Public Policy of the United States!! What? Where was this at!!! Do we take away the NEW YORK TIMES POSTAL PRIVILEGES if they run Personal ads SWF desires SWM!!

But they still did it. Now one could agree that the court was right. That Bob Jones College was practicing a wrong and it should be helped to be swept away. In fact as I sort tend toward the natural law I really don't find this objectionable in some ways. Though I find that prudence demands that such a move might be more dangerous as to our political structure.

Well if you are an orthodox Catholic, or Jew or just thinks gay sex is wrong expect to be put in the same category as people that don't think the "races" should mix and to receive that public and legal sanction.

When something is called a Fundamental right a whole new regime of things(or laws) is brought in to promote and protect that right. It is natural.

I respect what the gay rights people are doing. THEY GET IT!!! THEY UNDERSTAND HOW ALL THIS WORKS . Sadly Catholics that should have picked up some grounding in Natural law and the logic and power of morals and how it relates to law pretty much don't.

3 comments:

PersonalFailure said...

In other words, you fear being on the receiving end of the treatment gays currently get, i.e., can't get jobs, can't rent apartments, can't adopt children, etc.

If you're so afraid of all that, why do you think it's okay for gays to be treated that way?

James H said...

Personal Failure I think that is a good honest question.

First let me say I am trying to make a point to the response "How does gay marraige affect you" and the implied answer it doesn't. At the very least pople should know what they are getting into.

I don't think I am alone in this but as someone that opposes gay marraige I have also supported a ton of common sense laws that protect the rights of gays and lesbians.

It has sort of come as a shock to many of us that because we oppose gay marriage that suddenly we are bigots and just are spreading hate.

That is is worrersome and the use of blunt political power to forward this line of thought is well scary.

There seems to have to be a balance here. What is the balance in the Freedom of association. The Freedom to associate also means the freedom not to associate. I recognize that there is a much needed middle ground.

So I support the right of lets say a person that has a garage apartment not to have to rent to a homosexual couple if he or she has a problem with the lifestyle. However I would not support in general the right of a Apartment complex to do the same.

I support the right of a Private schools not to hire a Active Homosexual that is in a same sex Union. I would not support the discrimination of homosexuals in the public school systems.

Again there is a balance here. Thought I am against gay marriage I would not be opposed to Civil Union that would not be based on Sexual orientation but could be taken advantage of by gay couples to give almost the same protections that marriage does. I have no problem in such a concept that a couple could in fact use this arrangement for tax purposes or for the assigning of Social security benefits.

THese are just a few examples. However we have seen with the recent actions in D.C. and elewhere that this tolerance toward different opinions do not appear to be going both ways.

THe question is this. IF Homosexual marriage is a fundamental right and all the laws that come with it what is the protection for those that disagree with it in the work place and elsewhere. It seems both will have to occur but right now I am just seeing one side of the equation being talked about and legislated.

jim said...

AFAIK, existing laws already protect against discrimination based on one's religious beliefs, ergo your argument has no basis in reality.

There are people in the US who oppose racial integration to this day, & nobody is denying them work or a place to live - but it's true, they're mostly forced to remain very very quiet, because such beliefs are socially pernicious. So is homophobia, no matter how many biblical verses one quotes to justify it.

With marriage in serious decline across America for many years now, I would think its self-appointed "defenders" would be overjoyed at the prospect of millions of new couples who would be in effect joining their side.

Funny how the advocates of "civil unions" seem to always be the exact same people who introduce state laws barring same-sex couples from many of the legal rights that such unions should automatically confer upon them (much like many of them claim to honor the "spirit" of Roe v. Wade while making it ever-harder for women to keep control of their own bodies via the courts & referenda)... funny like a toothache.

"Almost the same protection as marriage" today is pretty much the same as "right next to the Whites Only section at restaurants" fifty years ago - to you it may sound really swell, but to the people you want to "generously" class as inferior? Yeah, not so much.

PS - SpellCheck is not a tool of Satan. It's kind of hard for a lot of people to take your arguments seriously when you spell like a seven-year-old.