Response to the LA Times Editorial on the Pope and Separation of Church and State

Just incredible. Let me post this gem of a editorial from the Los Angeles Times. The Ignorance of this article is beyond belief.

Teaching the Pope
During his visit to the U.S. in April, Benedict XVI could learn the value of separation of church and state.
November 14, 2007
Pope Benedict XVI will be preaching on his visit to Washington and New York next April, his first trip to the United States as pope. That's part of a pope's job description. But many American Catholics hope that the papal visit will double as what politicians in this country call a "listening tour." They know that, erudite as this former theology professor may be, he still might be able to learn something from their experience in a pluralistic country where the Catholic faith has flourished despite -- or because of -- the separation of church and state.

Benedict's visit, announced this week, will coincide with a presidential campaign. During the 2004 campaign, America's Catholic hierarchy was divided on whether pro-choice Catholic politicians -- including Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry -- should be denied Holy Communion. Some bishops, including Cardinal Roger M. Mahony of Los Angeles, believed that pro-choice politicians should search their conscience before deciding whether to approach the Communion rail.

Others took a more confrontational line, warning that they would deny the sacrament to pro-choice politicians.Earlier this year, Benedict seemed to endorse the hard-line view, answering "yes" when asked if he agreed with the idea that Mexican legislators who voted to legalize abortion should be excommunicated. But a spokesman later issued a clarification that, while reasserting church teaching against abortion, left unclear whether the pope would deny Communion to pro-choice politicians. When Benedict comes to the United States, he is likely to be importuned by conservative Catholics to side with the hard-liners.

He would be wiser to listen to other Catholics, laypeople as well as clergy, who know what mischief would be caused by a decree that would seem to force some Catholic officials to choose between their responsibility to their constituents or the Constitution and their standing in the church. These American Catholics believe, as President Kennedy said in 1960, in "an America where the separation of church and state is absolute; where no Catholic prelate would tell the president -- should he be Catholic -- how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote."

The pope's visit could be educational on another front as well: Christian-Islamic relations. Even before his much-criticized remarks about Islam at a conference in Germany, Benedict had seemed to side with those who believe that Europe is a Christian civilization that can't assimilate a significant Muslim presence. On his home continent, it was common until recently for Christianity of one form or another to be the established religion. In the United States, which never has had a national church, Protestants, Catholics, Jews and now Muslims vigorously practice their faith. Perhaps more important, research indicates that Muslims in America are more assimilated and
less alienated than their fellow believers in Europe. The pope should hear their voices too.

Where does one even start with this. It so full of ignorance one wishes to just throw up their hands in despair.

First it is apparent the the LA Times has no understanding of the concept of the Separation of Church and State. It really is quite mind boggling that the LA Times is in fact trying to pressure the Church into being subservient to the STATE to the degree it can not even disciplined its own members. Do they not even notice this inconsistent line of thought?

Have they even thought to research what Pope Benedict thinks about the concept of Separation of Church and State in America. I have read some of his thoughts and the LA Times might be surprised!!! For instance in . He is even quoting Alexis de Tocqueville!!!! in this dialogue with the Italian Senate President.

Pope Benedict XVI offers to address the current crisis in Europe and the Western world. He begins by addressing the idea of a non–denominational Christian religion: using the example of the United States. He says he is reminded of the way in which the United States was founded, and he quotes a phrase from Alexis de Tocqueville’s Democracy in America, “Despotism may govern without faith, but liberty cannot”. (p.108) He shows that this “religion–state” has been obviously influenced by the secular world. In a supremely Catholic fashion Ratzinger provides the solution to this rampant pace of secularization:
This is why it is so important to have convinced minorities in the Church, for the Church, and above all beyond the Church and for society: human beings who in their encounters with Christ have discovered the precious pearl that gives value to all life (Matthew 13:45), assuring that the Christian imperatives are no longer ballast that immobilizes humanity, but rather wings that carry it upward. Such minorities are formed when a convincing model of life also becomes an opening toward a knowledge that cannot emerge amid the dreariness of everyday life. Such a life choice, over time, affirms its rationale to a growing extent, opening and healing a reason that has become lazy and tired. There is nothing sectarian about such creative minorities. Through their persuasive capacity and their joy, they reach other people and offer them a different way of seeing things... Without such motivating forces, nothing can be built. (pp. 120–121)

I shall try to update with the some links to more of his thoughts.

Second, and this is truly funny. The LA Times writers , that I am sure think of themselves as quite world, are acting like the stereotypical ignorant American, that sees all through an US view and that is disinterested in the world around them. Did it ever occur to the LA Times that Pope Benedict is from the land of Martin Luther himself. Do they know that because of his experiences he was one the one , when he was but a Cardinal, that made sure major reconciliation between Lutherans and Catholics happened on the topic of Justification. The major issue of the Reformation itself!!! Go see Ratzinger credited with saving Lutheran pact .

Are they even aware of the major moves he is making as Eastern Orthodox and Catholic relations? Something that is both a religious and political minefield? I doubt that the hundreds of Millions of Eastern Orthodox do not even cross their minds. However it does to Pope Benedict as I pointed out here , and just last week at my post Major Earth Breaking News For Catholic/Eastern Orthodox Relations This Week?.

Who in heavens names are the Religion beat reporters at the LA Times? Were they consulted? If they were perhaps they need to be aware of the Vatican Web site where they can keep up to date on dialogue between Catholics and other Christian communities or and non Christian faiths.

Lastly, it is really funny that the LA Times is lecturing the Pope on Muslim relations. Trust me LA TIMES Brain trust. The Pope has the largest Mosque in Europe being built within his view of his Papal Apartments. He is quite aware of the issue of Muslim Dialogue. The fact is it is apparent that don't have a clue as to Pope's Benedict's views on Muslims and Muslims and Europe. The fact is that the European Press has commented that the Pope remarks have opened up dialogue not retarded them. Did they notice last week that for the first time in history that King of the House of Saud visited the Vatican. Did they note all the symbolism that was going on. I suspect not. However if they are reading this dear ole blog go here to
Insightful Interview On How Pope Deals With Islamic and Communist Regimes ,
Follow Up On Saudi Kings's Visit With the Pope.(Vatican Radio) ,
Historic Day-Monarch From the House of Saud(Saudi) Meets Pope ,
Squabble between Muslim and Jew over lunch with the Pope who calms them down !!! , Muslims Standing Up-138 Muslims Write a New Letter to the Pope ,
Looking Back One Year Later On the Pope's Statements on Islam ,
If you are a Oriana Fallaci fan read this ,
and A Secular Muslim That We Should Know About .

What an embarrassment to the US journalist community.

Let me end with this. The Vatican Secretary of State a few months ago in Nashville was referencing the Democrats and others when he said:
I don’t understand how a person in public office or one engaged in political activity can be obliged to renounce his Catholic identity because the party, be it in the U.S. or in other countries, imposes an ethical choice on the basis of the party’s program.This, according to me, does not respect freedom of conscience. It even seems to me to be an oppression of conscience. Where is the freedom of conscience that is so proclaimed and defended in America?I am speaking here about the question of abortion, about homosexual marriage, about embryonic research, all the points that were discussed so eloquently yesterday by the Supreme Knight, Mr. Anderson.