Thursday, June 27, 2013

Pope Francis On Two Kinds of Fake Christians - Joyless Pelagians and the Gnostics

Another one of Pope Francis 's interesting daily homilies.

4 comments:

James Jordan said...

I think Pelagians tend to have more joy because they aren't sitting around worrying hoping that some miserly god will give them that elusive grace he seems to always be with-holding. They know that God helps those who help themselves, and so they always have the assurance that they already have God's grace, as much of it as they need. Pelagians take it seriously when Paul says "I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me" while Augustinians lie about begging "Oh God! Please just give me a little more grace! Just a little more please please please! Why won't you give it to me you #$%$%#$? Just give me one more scrap! Por favor!!!"

James H said...

I think that is a maybe good point !!

Anonymous said...

Mr. Jordan-- having spent 50 years in the Roman Church (10 in Vatican 1), I'd say your "Oh God! Please just give me a little more grace! Just a little more please please please! Why won't you give it to me you #$%$%#$? Just give me one more scrap! Por favor!!!"
parallels as many Catholics back then (lacking assurance due to "Works" based faith vs Eph 2.8-10) as it might "stiff" Calvinist Protestants.

Also, as Augustine's view (accepted by such large popes as Gregory I) obviously contradicts the currently taught semi-Pelagian view, (both cannot be right), then where is the concept of "infallability" demostrated? It isn't.

And if Peter was indeed (universal) "pope" vs the local metropolital "bishop" (as Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria and later Constantinople), and Christ rebuked him in the Garden for using a sword to defend Christ...would Peter have likely supported 600 years of Inquisition..and Crusades...?

And knowing what Christ taught Peter about His love for little Children, how would Peter have handled people sitting "ex Cathedra" purposely ignoring 40 years of child abuse and the cover up? He Wouldn't.

I know many "Catholics" whose doctrine has smothered their "Christian", because it makes them "think" they're "doing" all the right things--like going to church 12x a year (whether they need it or not"), thinking "Membership in the one true church" is like being a "child of Abraham" (what did Christ say about that?)and not worrying about a life that allows then to smugly cast sarcasm at others like those "poor Augustinians"). Perhaps you should give James 1:26-27 a read.
Peace.

James Jordan said...


Umm....James, FWIW "God helps those who helps themselves isn't in scripture (often attributed to Ben Franklin)"


I never thought that the exact phrase was in the Bible, but the basic idea certainly is. But I think people who say that the exact phrase not being in Scripture somehow disproves the meaning need to study their Bible more.

What does it mean, for instance, to say in Deuteronomy "Behold I set before YOU life and death: choose life that you may live?" The choice is left in man's hands. An Augustinian will have to believe that although it sounds like the choice is left in man's hands, God actually makes the choice for them because they certainly can't possibly have freewill according to that Manichean malosophy.

Its also been asserted before I've seen that the phrase ultimately comes from Matthew 5:7 "Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy." And the statement that goes the other way around James 2:13 "For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy..."

In its secular/economic sense the phrase can be ferreted out of Proverbs 6:6-11 "Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise: which having no guide, overseer, or ruler, provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest. How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep? Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep: So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth, and thy want as an armed man." In other words, if you're a lazy bum, God is not happy with you. Don't think you can be a bum and then pray for God to provide everything. Not going to work: God helps those who help themselves...like the ant.