A Response to My post "Two Catholic Views on Iraq and the War On Terror"

Morning Minion who is a poster over at Vox Nova has responded in part to my post Two Catholic Views on Iraq and the War On Terror . He was the author of the post I spent a good amount of time commenting on. Go read his post today It is the Bad Theology, Stupid.

I am listed under JH and gave a response in the comment section that is currently awaiting moderation to be posted.

As I noted in the comment a post by Minion a couple of days earlier called The Lure of Fear was not all about theology. I would called a viewpoint that thinks that the Bush administration stages terror alerts and is involved in the "crushing of dissent", and before the election does a "strategic release" of the Bin Laden video seems to be very political rather than theological. Again I am reacting to his posting on Iraq as whole and not operating in a vacuum. For instance I have this post in mind of Minion''s Iraq war: The disproportionate evils that just keep coming. One reason I post them is to interact with them. I should note in that link he notes that AQ in Iraq is indeed a threat somewhat.

However, I do believe his view of a distorted Theology being behind a American's foreign policy is one that he sincerely believes. I also find it an argument that should be heard which is why I have often linked his articles here as well as other posts from that very good Catholic site. Even when I disagree with them. Anything for instance by Katerina Ivanovna one among others is something I take note of because it is challenging at times.

So is there a distorted Calvinist Theology behind American's viewpoint of foreign policy? He does bring up some good points as to what is called "American Exceptionalism". I agree that a any theology that thinks America can do no wrong or is some sort of New Israel is folly. However there is "American Exceptionalism" and then there is not.

First does God Bless or Punish Countries. There was a interesting post on Vox Nova a few weeks backs called God Will Kill America. Now the great stuff is of course in the comment section. You will note that Morning Minion takes a very consistent position here. That countries are just administrative units so there is no collective blessing or punishments. I am not so sure.

It does seem that God has taken quite a interest in countries affairs in the past and we seem to have that in our Catholic tradition.

The immigration debate we had here in the United States was a nasty one. I do not want to reopen that debate on this post. However I was very struck by flyer that the Catholic Worker Group sent to legislators in Oklahoma when this was occurring last year. Go read the flyer "Will your sins against the poor send you to HELL?" Look at this portion of that flyer/letter they sent:

Cursed is anyone who is unjust to foreigners, orphans, and widows. And all the people will reply, Amen. - Deuteronomy 27:19
Whoever gives to the poor will lack nothing. But a curse will come upon those who close their eyes to poverty. Proverbs 28:27
According to the Holy Bible, one of the important functions of government is to protect the weak and the powerless. Immigrants are often among the most vulnerable members of our community. Politicians who turn their backs on the poor are bringing the condemnation of God upon our state and nation. According to the prophet Ezekial, one of the reasons that Sodom was destroyed was because of its oppression of the poor. (See Ezekial 16.)

Pretty hard hitting stuff no matter where you stand on the debate. Even if a politician was against Comprehensive immigration reform I think this would cause me him to ponder some things just in case. This "progressive" if you want to call it that(I know labels are a hot topic) Catholic group that works for social justice is talking about condemnations of peoples and nations. I don't think they would view themselves as Calvinist. Are they operating under some warped view of Calvinism? I mean if a Country can be blessed it can be punished. Again I do not wish to get into if their argument is correct about immigration laws. However I do applaud then for bringing up the point that perhaps just perhaps In a Country where we the voter are "Caesar" or "Pharaoh" to some degree we should take note of possible judgments. For similar sentiments see from the Catholic Worker House A Holy Day Warning to Politicians, the Selfish Rich and the Politically Well-Connected from the Oscar Romero Catholic Worker House.

Also see their piece The War on Immigrants. I am not agreeing with everything they are saying as to this particular issue. I do think they are a tad over the top. However I was struck by this part of the before mentioned link as to immigrants:
"People who are not primarily responsible for such legislation may nevertheless gain some responsibility for the sins committed by legislators. The Catechism says: "1868: Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them: by participating directly and voluntarily in them; by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them; by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so; by protecting evil-doers."

But there is flip side. Can nations be blessed by God if they can be punished? Well I think so. If not why was Pope Pius the XII in 1946 declaring Our Lady of Guadalupe the Patroness of the Americans and saying :"For we are certain, " he said, "that as long as you are recognized as Queen and Mother, Mexico and America will be safe." What about Our Lady of Fatima and Russia? Was St Joan of Arc off her rocker? Again it appears that yes Countries can be blessed or punished and it seems to have a place in Catholic theology.

Now does this mean that we as a part of our Catholic Theology should be teaching that the United State's is God's nation like some new Israel? Of course not and Morning Minion is correct on this. However one must not throw the baby out with the bath water and just go 180 degrees in the other direction.

Returning to his post, let me say I agree totally with this viewpoints on the silliness of this some this end of time theology. I do think though it has much less of a effect than he fears. However there is a line I would like to point out. That is does George Bush endorse "American Exceptionalism on steroids"(4 th paragraph). Here we get to the crux of the matter. That is what is NOT American Exceptionalism.

I am trying to find a post on Vox Nova to use as example of where I think this American Exceptionalism argument goes too far. I read it and was struck by it a couple of months ago because I thought it was incorrect. I shall post that in part II of this post later.